TOB is quietly continuing to ferment in the secondary bottles. I will leave it till the weekend except where back pressure is involved. Do another test to see if the alcohol level is going up.
TNB is showing a tiny bit more activity after yesterday’s agitation. I’ll start up Doyle’b batch myself on Saturday if he hasn’t re-surfaced by then.
fermentarium » Blog Archive » Making hard cider at home Q&A.
I drank half a bottle of Uncle John’s Cider with some curry tonight. I was pretty sad stuff. The stuff from Lehman’s scored a 8 with me and this stuff gets maybe a 5. And 1 point of that it gets just for existing. I think I can do better.
I decided that wheter its good or not, its not going to get any closer to being cider in the primary fermentation. So I bought a sipon and cleansed it with the suflite cleanser, along with a couple of apple juice bottles I held onto from TCS, and a 1 gallon jug from the Country Cider Mill. Maybe it’ll be a good omen. Then I cleaned up the primary and left it soaking with some sulfite in it. Its ready for Doyle, or barring that, the mid november batch, hereby labeled MNB.
I still owe doyle some bucks from the outing yesterday, I might just go ahead and buy him some apples.
—————-
More Cider links:
http://valencerecipes.blogspot.com/2007/10/make-your-own-hard-cider.html
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=94651&start=0
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/slow-stuck-fermentation-cider-barrel-172577/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/1st-attempt-hard-apple-cider-80602/
http://www.cider.org.uk/
a good argument against using plastic bottles:
http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm
you will never lose a batch racking too early, but you can loose a batch leaving it on the lees too long.
I always leave my cider in primary for a month, don’t ask me why but it has always yielded excellent results!
1: Stir it up.
2: add yeast nutrient
Doyle and I hopped in the flashmobile and headed for Elkhart yesterday. We went to the “Quality Brewing Supply” place that I had ordered items from on the internet.
Turns out the address they post is not where the store is exactly, and we actually parked outside the new place while walking around to find the old one. But eventually we got there and I grabbed up some more yeast, some more cleansing powder and a small bag of sugar. OH and a hydrometer. I needed a bit of a reference to see if I could safely ignore the lack of visible fermentation in TOB. Doyle thought it was a neat place and a primary fermentation bucket caught his fancy. I think the fact that it was labeled “the Ale Pail” might have had something to do with it.
We had a brief interlude to take JJ to her Reiki session and then went up to the Lehman Orchards in Niles. Turns out they are just up Portage …waaaay up Portage road but we found it. This time the car’s GPS was about 2 blocks off, but we drove up to the corner and back and found it on the other side of the hill. But then we saw a sign that said “closed except by appointment.” So we started to turn around but before I could complete my 3 corner turn a young farm hand came up and asked what we wanted. He went to get the boss and in a few minutes a lovely dear lady came out and took us to a small cooler where they had some cider and wine chilling. Between Doyle and I we got 6 bottles. They have apple crisp cider (Doyle’s favorite apple), and cherry cider (hmmn interesting) and blueberry cider (no thank you!) I ended up with 1 cherry and three apple crisps. I’m not sure of the combination Doyle ended up with its possible we got them mixed up upon delivery. The dear old lady who looked lost in the closet sized refrigerator asked if we wanted anything else, fudge or almond bark? Doyle took her up on the offer and we headed to the building next door. I put the cider in the trunk and the owner who I think said his name was Scott came over and she handed us off to him. We went inside what looked like a dairy barn from the outside and there we saw a dozen 55gallon drums with cider or wine perculating away in them. That made a heady scent I can tell you! Then he opens a door in the back wall and leads us thru a plastic curtain into a purpose built refrigerator big enough to fit 4 semi trailers in. there were crates and crates of apples stacked all around and a huge cooling unit in one wall. Amazing! I thought the first fridge was large, now I know what a porkchop feels like when you put it in the fridge. After some more chatting about apples and cider, and a peck of fuji apples for Doyle we stepped out. I noticed the owner put a few spare apples in for tasting :). We went out once more and he returned with almond bark with cranberries in it. We all shook hands and Scott invited me to check out the Grand Rapids international Cider fest this coming March. I’d already seen it on the website but I didn’t have any details from someone who had already been there. As we left he recommended going to the Wheatberry restaurant in Buchannon as they carry his cider on tap there. OOOooooo yeah!
Later that evening I had some of the apple crisp cider with a pizza and watched “A bit of fry and laurie” with JJ. It was good stuff, very smooth, low carbonation (not a bad thing in cider by the way) and at 6.5% alcohol I had to stop myself from drinking it and then immediately falling asleep.
But back to my cider. I had Doyle over to try the current batches and see if he thought they were worth saving or not. I prefaced that with letting him know I had already tried them with no ill effects, just in case.
“The cheap stuff” or TCS, had continued to ferment a bit in the bottle, it was not as sweet or as crisp as I found it just two days before. I think its on the verge of becoming vinegar. No big loss there, I have barely a quart and a half of the cheap stuff. It could benefit from more sugar and I think I’ll put some in that just to see if it will come around.
The cider designated “The October Batch” or TOB had some definite taste of alcohol, and still reminded me of pears. I used my newly purchased hydrometer on a sample and was sad to discover it was only 1% alchol. I’ve done everything I can think of, or everything people on the net have done to start that batch on its way to ciderdom. It just won’t take off. I put in half a cup of the sugar dissolved in water in hopes that it would perk up the next day but here it is Sunday and there’s only the tiniest amount of new yeasty foam on the surface. Most descriptions of the process indicate there should be a vigorous response in the first two days. I’m thinking I will call this one dead on arrival and maybe only keep a quart of this lot just in case a miracle happens in the jar.
My best guess is that the pastuerized cider from Martins is just not viable for yeast to grow in. Even after adding apple juice, and two strains of cider, and half a cup of sugar, there’s not much going on in that bottle. But if that’s the reason its not fermenting, then what’s the dealio with “The November Batch?”
Cause pasteurization isn’t the issue there. I personally poured that cider from the big vat of freshly pressed apples at the Country Mill in Charlotte. It wasn’t pasteurized at all. It is purely the juice from pressed apples. SO why is it acting exactly like the first batch? I thought it might be temperature, but according to the yeast packet, its comfort range is much wider than the temperature in this house. If anything its closer to the upper end. But here it is a week into the process and I’m seeing the same sort of sluggish activity that the first batch gave me. In fact I added a half cup of sugar to it yesterday while I was adding some to TOB, and this morning there’s no sign of life in that dark reddish container.
I think I need to go back to the web and do some more research, see if I should bottle it with a touch of sugar now, try more sugar, or pour the lot down the drain and start again with apple juice. If TCS hadn’t worked as advertised I would suspect it was something in this environment, and it just might be. The only concern I have in that area at the moment is I don’t really have someplace I can put the bottles that won’t reach freezing temps, or stay too warm and continue to ferment and possibly explode all over my closet.
Research continues….
Okay, I am stuck.
I couldn’t tell if I had cider here, or stale old apple juice.
So I ciphoned off a sample, only a couple ounces really, and I drank it.
Oddly enough it (TOB) tasted like unsweetened pears. It wasn’t half bad, though it still had the cloudy look of Addlestone’s. I was worried that it would be too sweet, and its not. Not harsh, not bitter, with a little tingle on the lips. Kinda Pear wine in nature. Not as carbonated as I thought it might be.
I couldn’t tell if I had cider here, or stale old apple juice.
So I ciphoned off a sample, only a couple ounces really, and I drank it.
Oddly enough it (TOB) tasted like unsweetened pears. It wasn’t half bad, though it still had the cloudy look of Addlestone’s. I was worried that it would be too sweet, and its not. Not harsh, not bitter, with a little tingle on the lips. Kinda Pear wine in nature. Not as carbonated as I thought it might be.
SO I let that sit in me a few hours with no ill effects, and I had a similar sized taste of TCS. It was more like scrumpy, but it too wasn’t sweet at all. Almost like that taste you get with green apples sometimes. I thought it would be smoother based on the taste I had a day or so ago, but it seems its still fermenting in the bottle. I need to put it in a cooler location for at least a couple weeks.
Once I’ve gotten a second opinion on it from Doyle, and I’ve adjusted the taste to more like we expected it to be. I still don’t know why I didn’t get a huge roiling head of activity in the must like the guides said I would, even after adding a pint of apple juice to the mix. Probably the combination of lower temperatures and the variety of yeast.
Doyle and I are going over to Elkhart to visit the home brew store in person, maybe I can pick up some tips there.
But pleasant or not, it IS cider my friends.
I’m desperate, no action in TOB, hardly any sign of action in TNB. So I took my remaining packet of yeast, started it in some cider and split it between the two.
I don’t know what else I can do to save the brews. Either they have really low foaming and they’re good, or they’re spoiling and that’s killing the yeast. It just doesn’t smell like its spoiled.
I’ll have another good luck tonight, and come saturday I’m going to go get a hydrometer. If I can prove that there’s alcohol around 5%, then its really Ok and I can go ahead and rack it off, but if its not, then its been sitting out for a couple weeks and I probably shouldn’t drink it. I’ll have to fall back to straight apple juice.
Hurmmm…
I don’t know what else I can do to save the brews. Either they have really low foaming and they’re good, or they’re spoiling and that’s killing the yeast. It just doesn’t smell like its spoiled.
I’ll have another good luck tonight, and come saturday I’m going to go get a hydrometer. If I can prove that there’s alcohol around 5%, then its really Ok and I can go ahead and rack it off, but if its not, then its been sitting out for a couple weeks and I probably shouldn’t drink it. I’ll have to fall back to straight apple juice.
Hurmmm…
I went in search of cheap canning jars of the pint or so variety while I decided what to do about the TOB and its lacktivity.
I didn’t find any for cheap save for some quart sized bottles and there isn’t enough to make it worth dividing down to quarts. I still hesitate at pouring sugar into my mix since that’s what I complain about most when it comes to commercial ciders. TOO sweet. So instead I bought some cheap apple juice and added it right into the mix. If that doesn’t jump start the whole lot then I’ll take the bottom of the TCS and add it to the wort. Its proven itself already and that’s about all I can do to try and save it. I think… I’ll know in the morning…In the mean time I will do more research.
But first, I’m starting a new batch. The November Batch is made from 3 gallons of pure cider from the tap at the Country Mill in Charlotte , Mi. It is darker and had a reddish tint to it that I haven’t seen in English ciders but more along the lines of Magner’s Irish cider. I used some of the yeast I had left from the first batch, starting it in a small amount of cider warmed and bubbly before adding to the lot. I’m using a second 3 gallon water bottle fresh from Martins and the airlock that came with the kit I bought from the cheery fellow at the wine sampling counter. It came with different variety of yeast but I’m saving that for Doyle to take a crack or possibly to start a batch with the hardware of TOB once it gives up its ghost. I looked at the wrapper before tossing it and both yeast strains are from the same manufacturer in Canada.
I’m using Lalvin EC-V118
The spare strain I have is called “KI-V116.” which I couldnt find a direct quote for on the manufacturer’s website, but I found it on a ‘apple wine’ forum and its gotten good reviews. So having ‘introduced’ the yeast to all that lovely fresh cider I turned to the “cheap stuff.” Which, should historians be taking note. Is actually the first cider I’ve made and got at least as far as the second fermenation stage. November first finds me racking off my first cider!
I siphoned off a quart from the cheap stuff and have about 6 ounces left to use in the above described last ditch effort to save TOB. It looks a nice golden yellow though a touch cloudy. But it smells (and thanks to the siphon) tastes like real cider. I was immediately reminded of the cloudy ‘traditional scrumpy’ I had at the Bear and Staff back in 2003. It was called.. Addlestones Cloudy…Not my favorite but I’m very excited to have something that didn’t make me spit it out immediately. The words “Bottom of a gerbil’s cage” have been haunting me and probably will till I get further confidence in my proceedure. For the moment I’ve put it into a spare quart plastic jar on a lower shelf in the hallway to watch it in case fermentation isn’t as stopped as I think it is. It’s too cold to put anything outside–the prediction is several degrees below freezing tonight– but I’ll find someplace for it.
My only regret is not having started sooner! 🙂
Cider that is.
Managed to go to two cider mills on the way to Frankenmuth and back with the mrs.
Managed to go to two cider mills on the way to Frankenmuth and back with the mrs.
On the way up I visited Uncle John’s Fruit house winery and on the way back we stopped at the Country Mill Orchard & Cider .
Uncle John’s was the more commercial of the two and sat up on a hillside with orchards and fields all around. We arrived in the afternoon and after discovering that I had to go into the wine tasting shed to buy the cider I stood for 30 minutes and had a very grumpy woman offer me a sample of their two ciders in a glass that smelled of windex. Might have helped if there had been more than a teaspoon in the glass. Initial reaction: I can’t say either tasted very remarkable. Then I was handed two bottles and rushed out the door. JJ initially reported that there was no actual pies in the pie barn, but we tried again and found that there were pies there, just extremely expensive ones. We bought some ‘baking’ apples and had a glass of hot cider and a cider donut before carrying on to Frankenmuth. Actually we stopped just north of Flint for a night but that’s a Tale for another blog.) Everything else there was nice enough, almost like a carnival atmosphere with the extra things they put on for the children at this time of year, but I have to say my cider tasting tour was not off to a great start. Which was sad because most of the people I’ve contacted or reviews I’ve read rated Uncle John’s as one of the best. They must have had children with them, or they’d tasted a lot more than two tiny tipples of cider.
On the trip back Sunday we made an early stop in Charlotte, Michigan at the Cider Mill farm. This one was’nt as big as Uncle John’s but still looked like a fully functional farm on top the cider business. You see artsy craftsy nicknacks, some items of clothing, and a view into the cider press room. We were too early to buy alcohol, apparently in Michigan you can’t buy it till after noon. And boy did the line build up exactly at 12! They had a very friendly gent behind the counter who gave me samples of all their two ciders and their apple wine. I was doubtful of the cider made with Maple syrup, but I’m a convert now! It tasted exactly like the Gaymer’s gold cider I had in London, and I liked it hands above the cherry based one. The wine was good too and I would have bought that on a wine tasting trip. The bloke behind the counter told me that technically their cider is called wine because it has more than 7% alcohol. This may have been a contributing factor in its like-abliltiy, I’m not sure. 🙂 They also had taps where you could pour your own cider and though I’d brought a 3 gallon water bottle like the one I have underway, it was clear it wasn’t going to fit under the taps. So I just poured three separate gallons and carted them proudly home.
They had a ‘hard cider brewing kit’ on the counter, which consisted of yeast, rubber stopper and airlock. Instructions from a place called ‘red salamander’. Website is here.
Speaking of the batches I have underway, the ‘cheap stuff’ which will hereafter be known as “tcs” has slowed to a bubble every second or so, and is in need of racking off for the second fermentation. The first 3 gallons wate rbottle of cider, hereafter known as the October batch or “TOB” still isn’t showing much activity. I expected primary fermentation to start by now if not finished. I did some research on it, and it could be that its cooler or doesn’t have enough sugar or could be ‘off.’ I took a whiff of it and it doesn’t smell bad, still smells slightly yeasty as it did on day one. I could either use some of the TCS to boost it, buy another bottle of apple juice and let that add to the overall sugar content, or get about a half cup of sugar and dissolve it into the batch. I’m tempted to try honey or even syrup now, and it was kinda in the back of my mind that come sampling time I’d add something to sweeten it up if it tasted too harsh in the intermediary stage. SOME of the instructions I read said to add dextrose to the fermentation, some didn’t. Looks like now I probably should have. I expected results similar to that I got with TCS but that stuff must have a higher sugar content.
I’m learning, and tomorrow I’ll start the november batch or “TNB” as well as sort out TOB, which isn’t yet a lost cause.